tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 18 12:45:29 1998
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Re: Verbs of Saying
- From: Terrence Donnelly <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Verbs of Saying
- Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:44:24 -0500
At 08:29 AM 8/18/98 -0700, Qov wrote:
>---qe'San - Jon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
[pe'..]
>> After reading the above I couldn't help thinking about {pong (v)}
>again.
>>
>> It is repeatedly said that we don't know how the verb is used as we
>> haven't been given any cannon examples. I'm sorry for bringing it up
>> again but I thought, why isn't pong considered to be a verb of saying?
>>
>> If it were treated as such then we do have cannon examples as referred
>> to {jatlh} etc.
>
>This is one of the most creative suggestions I've ever seen for /pong/.
>It's also succint, quite clear to read and doesn't actually propose
>any new grammar. By making the name a separate utterance -- and a
>name can definitely be a separate utterance, if only in the vocative
>(when you are calling someone) -- you sidestep the whole problem of
>where to put a second object.
>
>This goes along with another suggestion I've seen and understood:
>
>/vIponglu'DI' Qov jatlhlu'/
>
>> In other words the following sentences might
>> translate as:
>>
>> I call my pet 'lunch' - {SajDaj vIpong . megh}
>> or {megh . SajDaj vIpong}
>>
>> The crew call the ship 'garbage scow' -
>> {Duj lupong beqpu' . veQDuj } .
>>
>> Kahless called his new weapon 'the sword of honour' -
>> {nuH chu'Daj pongpu' qeylIS'e' . batlh 'etlh } .
>
>/pongpu'/ implies to me that someone later changed the name. Just
>/pong/ for simple past tense.
>
>> I am called qe'San (some call me qe'San) -
>> {vIponglu' . qe'San } ????.
>
>Neat suggestion. I like it. I don't think it violates anything. It
>doesn't mean it's the way Klingons say it, but I think they would be
>able to understand it.
But in these cases, /pong/ has an object, and an utterance, and I got
the implication from the discussion of /jatlh/ that a verb of saying
could have either an object or an accompanying utterance, but not
both. Or would you consider legal something like ?/"bImej vIneH"
mu'tlhegh vIjatlh/ (translating, I guess as "'I want to leave' I
speak a sentence")?
-- ter'eS