tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 24 16:50:32 1998
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Re: -be'taH & -taHbe'
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: -be'taH & -taHbe'
- Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:40:37 -0400
From: William H. Martin <[email protected]>
>According to David Trimboli:
>>
>> Okay, how about something like {QongDaqDaq Qotbe' tlhInganpu'} "Klingons
do
>> not lie in bed." (TKW 40) Sure, it's a proverb, but I'm sure you'll
agree
>> that there's no questionable grammar here. Yet we don't mean "Klingons
do
>> not lie down, and they do this not-lying-down in bed," we mean "Klingons
do
>> not use beds to lie down in."
>
>I can see your interpretation, but mine has always been
>simpler.
No, this is *not* how I would interpret the sentence. I would interpret it
to mean, "Klingons don't use a bed to lie down in," but it is not literally
saying that.
> If you find a Klingon in bed, you won't find him lying
>there. The locative sets the environment for the action and the
>verb and its affixes tells you about what happens there.
A Klingon could be standing in a bed, but this means a very different thing
than a Klingon not using a bed to lie down in.
>> The negation works like this:
>>
>> [QongDaqDaq Qot]be' tlhInganpu'.
>>
>> Not like this:
>>
>> QongDaqDaq [Qotbe'] tlhInganpu'.
>
>jIQochchu'. You can take the second interpretation and still
>say:
>
>QongDaqDaq [Qotbe'] tlhInganpu'.
>ravDaq [Qot] tlhInganpu'.
>
>In a bed, Klingons do not lie down.
>On the floor, Klingons lie down.
>
>This is EXACTLY as valid a meaning as:
>
>Klingons lie in a bed - NOT!
>Klingons lie on the floor.
Again, I'm not saying the [Qotbe'] sentence has the valid meaning. In fact,
I say the [QongDaqDaq Qot] sentence is the valid interpretation. My purpose
is simply to show that {-be'} has a tendency to negate more than just the
immediately preceding verb or verb suffix.
>When you begin with {QongDaqDaq}, you are setting a filter and
>expressing that the action you describe occurs in bed. There
>may be all sorts of actions occuring elsewhere, but THIS action
>is being considered in bed.
Right. And if the verb is {Qotbe'}, then the LITERAL interpretation must be
that the you are setting a filter and expressing that the action does not
occur, and that the not-occurring happens in bed.
The literal interpretation is not the correct one. The sentence really
means that a bed is an invalid place for this action to occur, not that it
is the place where the action is not occurring.
>If pigs can fly, why can't cows?
They're not smart enough to obtain a pilot's license.
SuStel
Stardate 98312.8