tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 15 14:47:21 1998
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Re: -taHbe' v -be'taH
According to David Trimboli:
>
> From: Jon Brown <[email protected]>
>
>
> >A child is being very noisy so the father shouts:
> >
> >vav: bIchuStaH yImev
> >
> >After stopping the child replies (as children often do):
> >
> >puq: jIchuStaHbe'
> > - I'm not continuing to be noisy.
> >
> >vav: DaH bImevlI' yIchuSbe'taH
> > - Now you've stopped Continue not being noisy!
>
> {DaH bImevlI'} means, "Now you are in the process of stopping." "Now you
> have stopped" is {DaH bImevpu'}.
Likely {DaH bImevchoHpu'} is closer to what was intended. The
beginning of the stoppage is complete, but the stopping has not
yet stopped. {{:)>
> Furthermore, you cannot use {-be'} on an
> imperative verb. This leads to something interesting. The command MUST be
> {yIchuStaHQo'} "don't continuously be noisy!" because {-Qo'} must come
> between Type 8 and Type 9 suffixes. The only other way to negate just the
> verb in an imperative is with {-Ha'}, but {-Ha'} is not simple negation.
Very interesting. Good point.
> Since something like {-Qo'} must, by necessity, negate the whole word, it is
> not inconceivable that {-be'} could do that too.
Of course, the only way to make that assumption is to ignore
everything Okrand says about {-be'} modifying the preceding
syllable, right there in TKD...
> >SUMMARY
> >
> >jIchuStaHbe' - I'm not continuing to be noisy.
> >
> > jIchuSbe'taH - I'm continuing to not be noisy.
>
> These might also be interpreted as "I am not continuously being noisy" and
> "I am continuously not being noisy," respectively. Whether the "not
> continuously being noisy" means "discontinuously being noisy" or "not
> continuously-being-noisy" is the big question.
jIQochchu'. The latter clearly means, "I continue to not be
noisy." To interpret it as, "I am not continuously being noisy"
is to ignore the placement of {-be'}. Okrand tells us that the
placement is significant in that it modifies the preceeding root
or suffix. How can anyone argue with this? {-Qo'} creates some
interesting problems, but {-be'} does not need to inherit them.
> SuStel
> Stardate 98285.9
charghwI'