tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Oct 08 01:45:39 1997
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Re: KLBC: Questions with <'e'>
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: Questions with <'e'>
- Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 01:45:28 -0700
At 02:21 97-10-07 -0700, Dawut wrote:
> I am wondering about the use of the special pronoun <'e'>, and came
> up with this question.
>
> I understand that the pronoun <'e'> refers to the last sentence as
> an object, hence the phrase "sentence as object" described in TKD
> p.65 (sect. 6.2.5); however, my question pertains to the use of
> question words with the special pronoun <'e'>.
>
> Here are some examples to illustrate my inquiry, presented as if
> two Klingons are talking to each other.
>
> Klingon1: jIjeghQo' "I won't surrender!"
> Klingon2: vaj bIHegh "Then you die!"
Right. Or "then you will die."
> This example demonstrates the usage of the conjunction <vaj> "then"
> beginning a sentence to refer to the previous sentence.
> This is the same structure and usage with <'e'> "that" which is
> usually followed by a verb of some sort.
Not quite correct. {vaj} means "thus" and can be used to introduce
any statement that somehow follows from the first one. The word
{'e'} must follow a sentence and the sentence that follows {'e'} must
take {'e'} as its object. Not the "same structure and usage."
> Klingon1: yIHmey vIHoH 'e' vItIv. "I enjoy that I kill Tribbles"
qarchu'. Also translatable "I enjoy killing tribbles."
> Klingon2: net Sov Hoch "everyone knows that"
Ahh. A misconception here. {net Sov} by itself means "everyone
knows that" "it is known that" "one knows." {net} is like {-lu'}:
the verb it is with has no subject. You could say {'e' Sov Hoch}
"everyone knows that" or maybe {'e' Sovlu'}. {net Sov} is exactly
equivalent to, and may be required instead of, {'e' Sovlu'}.
> This example demonstrates the usage of a simple
> "sentence-as-object" in the first sentence and the usage of <net>
> "that" at the beginning of the second sentence.
I understand your point.
> Here are examples which demonstrate my question.
>
> Klingon1: Heghpu' yaS "The officer died."
> Klingon2: chay' 'e' DaSov "How do you know that?"
Yes, that works.
> Klingon1: Heghpu' yaS jatlhta' HoD. "The captain said that the
> officer died."
> Klingon2: ghorgh 'e' DaQoypu' "When did you hear that?"
Other than that frequently ignored rule about type seven suffixes on
the verb following {'e'}, this works, too. You don't actually need
any of the aspect suffixes you have used in these sentences, anyway.
"The captain had said that the officer had died," you don't really
mean that, do you?
> Is this the proper usage and ordering if question words are
> involved in a sentence-as-object sentence?
HIja'. In general 'stuff that goes at the front of the sentence'
goes before {'e'} in a sentence-as-object.
> And could it all go together like this:
>
> Heghpu' yaS jatlhta' HoD ghorgh 'e' DaQoypu'?
> "When did you hear that the captain said the officer died?"
If it couldn't go together like this, it couldn't be used the other
way. To check if it worked, that is how I thought of the sentence.
You can say {Hegh yaS. chay' ngoDvetlh DaSov?} so you can say
{Hegh yaS chay' 'e' DaSov?} "How did you know the officer died?"
> Thank you for reading this and for following along.
Holmaj Dayajlaw'. majQa'.
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian