tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri May 09 15:26:13 1997
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RE: KLBC: 'uQpa'
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: KLBC: 'uQpa'
- Date: Fri, 9 May 97 22:13:47 UT
[email protected] on behalf of Jim LeMaster wrote:
> > > yItu' waDIch De'Qu' naDev!
> > > Here is another riddle for you!
> > > (Literally: Here you find a second information-quest!)
> >
> > {yItu'} is a verb, meaning "find it!" It is not a noun.
>
> I thought that I did use it as a verb.
Now I understand what you have tried to do. You are forgetting Klingon
sentence order. If {yItu'} is the verb, then whatever comes after it must be
the subject, since the sentence order must be Obj-Verb-Subj. However,
"information-quest" is not what is finding something. "You" are.
If you literally want to say "You find a second information-quest here," let's
start at the beginning. We see that "you" is the subject and
"information-quest" is the object. That means that {De'Qu'} will come first
and {SoH} will come last.
In English, "You find a second information-quest here" is a statement, not a
command. Therefore, let's choose a verb prefix from the table on TKD p. 33
which matches with "you" subject and "it" object. This prefix is {Da-}.
De'Qu' Datu' SoH.
Of course, we may drop the {SoH}, since the verb prefix says that the subject
*must* be {SoH}:
De'Qu' Datu'.
What about the "here" part? This is specifying the location that the action
takes place in. Normally, this is taken care of with a noun with the Type 5
suffix {-Daq} on it. Look in TKD section 3.3.3 under {-Daq}.
{naDev} "here" is one of three special cases. TKD tells us that it never
takes the suffix {-Daq}. You simply use it as is. TKD also tells us that all
of these locative nouns are placed immediately before the object noun. That
would give us
naDev De'Qu' Datu'.
You find an information-quest here.
We're almost there. We're trying to say "you find a *second*
information-quest here." How do we do this? Take a look at TKD section 5.2.
This is an ordinal number, and so you must add {-DIch}. "Second" is
{cha'DIch}. TKD says that the ordinal number always follows the noun which it
modifies. We're talking about a "second information-quest," so {cha'DIch}
"second" is modifying {De'Qu'} "information-quest." This gives us {De'Qu'
cha'DIch}.
To put it all together:
naDev De'Qu' cha'DIch Datu'.
You find a second information-quest here.
Of course, all of this is pretty moot. I would not say this. {De'Qu'} is
pretty unrecognizable I think. You may think of it as an approximation of
"riddle," but others may see it as something else, and therefore not
understand you. I might have, had you not told me, thought it meant "data
entry."
> >If you really wanted to say "information-quest," you'd say {De'Qu'}.
> >However, "information-quest" wouldn't necessarily be recognizable as
> >"riddle."
>
> I did use De'Qu'. I also couldn't come up with a better aproximation of
> "question" than "information-quest."
The problem here stems from thinking in nouns, as English does, rather than
thinking in verbs, as Klingon does.
> Not necessarily a riddle, but, I
> think, a good question - word:
> "I ask you a question" = "I send you on a quest to find information."
Now you've got a good idea! It's still mired in nouns (see all those
prepositions?), but it's got potential. We could recast this just slightly,
as follows:
I command you in order that you find information.
The verb for "command" is {ra'}, and adding the appropriate prefix from the
table on TKD p. 33 gives us {qara'} "I command you."
What do you do? "You find information." Before, "find" was {tu'}, but this
time, we're not only happening upon the information, we are actively seeking
it and finding it. There is a verb for this, in the Addendum of TKD: {Sam}.
Adding the appropriate nouns and prefixes, we get {De' DaSam} "you seek and
find information."
My purpose in commanding you was so that you'd find the information. That was
my purpose, so you need a purpose clause. {-meH} "in order that." TKD section
6.2.4.
De' DaSammeH qara'.
I command you to find information.
Literally: In order that you seek and find information, I command you.
Note that the purpose clause, {De' DaSammeH} "in order that you seek and
locate information" must come first in the sentence. Purpose clauses always
come before the main sentence.
> "Here is another riddle for you" is idiomatic and the next line of
> "Ompah, Lumpah, Duppity Doo!" which is not only idiomatic, but nonsense
> as well. How ever, presenting someone with something seems a concrete
> action, whether it is physical or verbal.
Just because a sentence is idiomatic does not mean that it refers to nonsense.
It just means that the sentence is not to be taken entirely literally.
"Oompah Loompah Dupity Doo" is not idiomatic, it's just nonsense.
By the way, there's a Klingon verb for "present," {much}. Although there's no
noun for "problem," which is what you'd want to present (though some people
like to use {qay'wI'} "thing which is a problem"), it's a useful verb for this
sort of thing. Keep it in mind.
> BTW, is there a Klingon on word for "puzzle"? "Word-puzzle" might be a
> better "riddle" than "information-quest."
Nope. Look for ways to think in verbs, because they're more useful in Klingon
than the nouns are.
--
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97355.0