tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 30 08:27:49 1997
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Re: KLBC story: puyjaq
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>Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 19:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
>
>[email protected] on behalf of Qov wrote:
>
>> At 10:10 AM 6/28/97 -0700, SuStel wrote:
>> >I responded to Qov's story and she wrote back:
>> >
>> >> >> ben law' rur HoD.
>> >> >This is a bit confusing. I read it as "Years ago, the captain resembled
>> >> >him."
>> >> > What do you mean to say?
>> >> Exactly that. I can't think of a differently worded translation.
>> >The wording is fine. You're just lacking some detail for the reader to
>> >focus
>> >on. Maybe a sentence describing exactly what about him was similar.
>>
>> The preceding sentences about the navigator being innocent and
>> overenthusiastic were what I was referring to. It wasn't important enough
>> to belabour. If, for reasons related to tlhIngan Hol, it doesn't make
>> sense, then leave it out.
>
>But it is related. Often, when one writes in Klingon, the sentences may be
>perfectly grammatical, but too much content has been lost in the process of
>going from English to Klingon.
FWIW, I understood Qov's line in the story. I remember thinking for some
reason that it should have been "HoD rur", but I see now it was right in
the first place. Oh, I know, I must have confused "ben" with "nem." At
any rate, I was thinking along the right lines.
>the original. You've lost the focus. This is what I mean.
Who's to say if I follow foci differently from most?
>Absolutely. The {pIqaD} font from the KLI is NOT, absolutely NOT the writing
>system used by Klingons. It's got a lot of symbols which they USE, but we
>absolutely do not know how these symbols are used. For all we know, each
>symbol could be a sort of heiroglyph. There's no reason to believe that the
>{pIqaD} system is a one-for-one phonetic mapping.
*shrug*. So what? If we replaced the Klingons in the story with the
Umbweebwees, a mythical race who happened to speak tlhIngan Hol (or perhaps
the story is being told to Klingons), Qov can make up the conventions as
she sees fit. Using the symbols like that almost certainly will confuse a
newcomer, who's trying to look up what those isolated sounds mean, but in
the context of the story I found they made sense to me.
>> Am I being unreasonably sensitive?
>
>I think perhaps you are. And that's not a criticism, really! :)
I think maybe so also... but she DOES have a point about conflating grammar
and style corrections. SuStel can't be a human grammar-checker, but it CAN
be confusing to have both those sorts of comments in the same mass. For
example, the surprise that the crewman slipped into warp accidentally.
Questioning that is a perfectly reasonable thing for a reader to do.
"What, you mean he actually did THAT???" But when it comes from the BG,
while wearing the BG hat, it takes it to a different level. I remember
waaaaay back when BG was just starting, someone talking about how a BG
should actually respond to content in a separate message, as that's part of
the "discussion" and not "correction" phases. Things have become a little
more chaotic than originally planned (which is no bad thing; a strict
demarcation isn't really feasible), but it is still something to bear in
mind: when are you speaking as Grammarian (and thus entitled to say "this
is bad, this is good, this is better"), and when as reader (helpful reader,
saying "hey, would this be better?" [Note that this may be the same thing
the Grammarian says, but the impact and import are different], or
discussing/participating reader, "wait, so how exactly did the captain know
the first officer was behind the wall?")
I may not be making sense here. And I may have painted myself into a
corner. Happens.
~mark
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