tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 16 17:03:18 1997

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Re : RE: KLBC: imperatives

OK and thanks, SuStel. As a reminder :

ja' jIH : {qar'a'?}
>> May a verb in imperative have a subject?
jang SuStel :
> The answer to this question is yes.  An imperative may have {SoH} or
{tlhIH} 
as the subject.

I asked this question about imperatives, and little time after that, realized
that
*all* forms of verbs were involved, not only imperative. For example,
(1)   {pIch Daghaj} "it is your fault", "you have faulted"
(2)   {pIch Daghaj wo'rIv} "you, Worf, have faulted"
(3)   {wo'rIv, pIch Daghaj} "Worf, you have faulted"
(don't ask me why I translate all these in past without the {-pu'} ; maybe
you just
realize some fault has been commited when it's too late).

TKD section 5.6 is not so clear about this. The third form, direct address or
"vocative", is certainly OK. But the second one makes {wo'rIv} give more
precise
information about the "you" implied by the verb prefix. In French we use both
forms 2 or 3 according to where we want emphasis. Case 2 would mean "you...
(no-one yet specified) Worf (now he's pointed out)", while case 3 would mean
"hey, Worf (I must tell you something)... you have faulted". Of course, the
"subject"
need not (at least in my understanding) be a proper noun : {DaQagh
ghojmoHwI'}
"you teacher have made a mistake".

In Japanese, this is a common way to address people when you intend (or are
supposed to) be polite. Since jap. "anata" (you) is quite rude, they use the
double-subject "anata-wa Tanaka-san" (you Mr. Tanaka) even in a very friendly
and unformal setting.
It seems Klingons do not have such concerns and that direct (not to say
"targeted")
speaking is the rule.

Since the use of a 2nd or 3rd person subject prefix leaves the "subject" slot
empty
in the sentence, I was just wondering how to fill it. However, see TKD 4.2.5
(indefinite subject) about how this slot is taken advantage of whenever it is
void...

Qapla' -- HdW

P.S. -- A last remark about {mI'QeD} for "mathematics" : the word-for-word
English
equivalent is "science of numbers" which we mathematicians (haha!
double-subject
here!) used to call "arithmetic" and nowadays "number theory". Other topics
in
maths would be "analysis situs" etc., but, as I've said in a previous
message,
{mI'Qed} or its equivalent is common in many Terran languages. There's no
need
(and no hope) to map exactly French words onto Klingon ones...  -- HdW

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