tlhob muHwI': > Why do you always say > {qep'a' loSDIch} (fourth big meeting) > and not > {qep'a' loS} (big meeting number four) Putting a cardinal number after the noun implies a label, identifying the noun as one of a sequence. Using an ordinal number with {-DIch} indicates that the nouns are being counted, not labeled. -- ghunchu'wI'