In a message dated 97-07-17 01:44:41 EDT, you write: << loDvam ghaH 'Iv'e' >> I really don't like the above sentence. It translates as: Referring to whom, he is this man. Try << 'Iv ghaH loDvam'e'>> instead. It translates as: Referring to this man, who is he? peHruS