tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 19 09:21:09 1996

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Re: thursday:today

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:10:51 -0700 [email protected] wrote:

> As a very pitiful example of a newbie in the language I recognise
> exactly what Lawrence is driving at. The first step is to try for the
> the word by word tlhIngan into English, then one has to make it a
> tlhIngan sentence--meaning, change the words used to the concept needing
> to be expressed. 

Please allow me to suggest a completely different approach. 
Instead of starting with an English sentence, looking up 
the words, then trying to twist them into Klingon grammar, 
it might be better for you to start out reading about 
Klingon grammar. Next, find some words which you might 
consider to fit into the slots in the specific grammatical 
example you are working with. Your goal is not to translate 
a sentence. Your goal is to learn a language. Sentences 
will follow. 

You can learn to make good sentences once you have learned 
the language and its grammar. You cannot learn the language 
and its grammar through repeated experiences of writing bad 
sentences by leaping ahead without learning the grammar 
first and just looking the words up in the dictionary. 

After all, TKD puts the word list AFTER the tutorials for 
the grammar. This was not accidental or arbitrary. I read 
TKD from front to back. Each time I reread it, I do so from 
front to back. I highly recommend that you do the same. 

When a child learns a language, they don't start out with a 
sentence in mind and then look up the words in a dictionary 
and then try to learn the grammar. First they learn some 
nouns and exclamatory words. "Dog." "No." "Yes." (They 
always learn "no" before "yes".) Next, they learn simple 
grammar for simple sentences. "Dog runs". "I want cookie."

So, learn some exlammatory words, like {HIja'}, {ghobe'}, 
{maj}, {majqa'} and perhaps {wejpuH}. You don't need to 
learn any grammar to use them. They are sentences unto 
themselves and do not vary in form.

Next, learn the grammar for a simple sentence and learn a 
few verbs and nouns to use them with. Don't start out 
wanting to say a specific thing and try to look up the 
words for it. Instead, start out learning a few words and 
how to use them. Keep it very simple.

Start to learn more grammar as soon as you feel like you 
are getting bored with the grammar you already know. Look 
up only words which you feel you can fit into the grammar 
you understand, and begin to memorize the words you find 
yourself naturally using.

TKD, The Klingon Dictionary does a good job of introducing 
grammatical concepts in stages. So learn the grammar as it 
is introduced and learn words to fit that grammar. Don't 
try to learn words first and hack at the grammar later, and 
don't try to leap ahead, skipping simpler grammar in order 
to get to what you think will express the complex English 
sentence you have in mind. In doing so, you only prove your 
own folly and test the patience of people who have been 
doing this for years. 

I would far prefer to read reams of simple Klingon text 
with a few errors here and there than to read any pile of 
ugly words jammed together with no concept of the language. 
I had a dream that this list would once be dominated by 
Klingon text in varying complexity where people learn by 
example and continually try to express things perhaps only 
slightly beyond their current grasp. Krankor did more to 
inspire that dream during the one month he wrote ONLY in 
Klingon than anyone else has done before or since. My 
current life does not afford me the resources to try to do 
the same, though perhaps soon...

Instead, the list is dominated by posts that are entirely 
in English, mostly unrelated to the langauge at all. If 
they are related to the langauge, they favor philosophical 
discussion about the language rather than good examples OF 
the language. I am in part to blame (this message is a 
case in point). I'm hoping that owning a private space will 
afford me more time to do better in the near future. 

The current methods are not only failing to raise the 
global Klingon literacy on the list but those who CAN write 
well in the langauge are either driven away, or encouraged 
to remain silent or write in English. I've learned more 
about Jamaican language and culture in the past few weeks 
than about Klingon language. The list is full of witty 
one-liners followed by huge .sig files rather than much 
serious discourse about or in Klingon. I see egos more than 
respect for or interest in the language and it makes me 
tired. 

charghwI'

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