tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 09 15:51:02 1996

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RE: KLBC: latlh vImugh

At 04:33 PM 12/8/96 -0800, you wrote:
>December 08, 1996 5:46 PM, jatlh HurghwI':
>
>> wovmoHwI' SuDchoH 'e' DaloStaHvIS bIjaHchugh, jIH DumevmoH yaS.
>> "If you go while waiting for the light to turn green, an officer will stop 
>you."
>
>Actually, what you have is more like "If you go while waiting for it to begin 
>being blue/green/yellow the brightness-causer, the officer makes you me stop."
>
>Here's the problem with using {SuD} for a traffic light: it covers both yellow 
>and green.  (Then again, yellow usually means "speed up" anyway . . .)

Ah, I hadn't considered this.

>You've got the wrong pronoun before the {mev} verb.  Actually, {mev} is one of 
>those verbs which can be used transitively without {-moH} (e.g. {bIjatlh 'e' 
>yImev}). 

I saw this as transitive in a different way. The officer doesn't cease you!
He _causes_ _you_ to cease your movement. I think that what you are seeing
as transitive is "cease," which is different from the transitive of "stop."
You can cease an action, but not a thing. That's why I chose {-moH} in this
case.

>You don't need to worry about using the {-moH} suffix.  (Of course, 
>it may not be wrong, either.  PK says that you can make your pet stop by 
>saying {mev!}.  This certainly seems to be intransitive.)
>
>I'm also not happy with the use of {wovmoHwI'} for "light."  It literally 
>means "thing which causes (something) to be bright."  I'd accept (grudgingly) 
>{wovwI'} for "light."

I thought of using signal, but I couldn't find it and didn't want to come up
with a similar word. I think you're right, {wovmoHwI'} would be better
applied to a light in a room whose purpose is to provide light.

>One more thing: how can one go while waiting to go?  They can't happen 
>simultaneously.  I'm going to suggest a new structure for this sentence.

Right. I picked this structure because of its complex nature.

>SuDchoHpa' wovwI' bIjaHchugh, Dumev yaS.
>
>Or better yet,
>
>SuDchoHpa' wovwI' bIjaHchugh, Duqop yaS.

I wanted to say he'll give you a ticket, but I didn't want to find something
to mean "ticket." With luck he won't arrest you on the spot!

>> DaqI'chugh, SoHvaD Huch law' vInob.
>> "If you sign it, I will give you lots of money."
>
>Other than the fact you'd have to be signing a *treaty*, this is fine.

Do you suppose a contract can be used with this verb? That's what I was
trying to get at.

>> len wItaghnISbej qeltaHvIS noHwI' ruv nobmeH.
>> "We must certainly have recess while the judge deliberates in order to
>> dispense justice."
>
>Ick.  This is a bit complicated, and the best thing to do would be to break it 
>into several sentences.

I put it into one sentence to make it more of a challenge.

>Remember, {-meH} clauses must come before the rest of the phrase.  Also, I'm 
>not sure if one "gives" justice.  Just in case you don't . . .
>
>ruv qelnIS noHwI' 'ej wuqnIS.  len wItagh.
>The judge needs to consider justice and decide.  We will begin recess.

The judge doesn't consider justice. He considers evidence, and then
dispenses justice. I was looking for "enforce."

>This is just one way to say this.  There are lots of others.
>
>> yIghoS, jupwI'! SoHvaD HIq vIje', 'ej majawlaH.
>> "Come, my friend! I will buy you a drink, and we can talk."
>
>Almost perfect!  {-laH} indicates that one is *able* to do something.  Unless 
>you've got a very strange set of circumstances, the person is always able to 
>chat, so you don't need the {-laH}.

One can always talk, but to me, _chatting_ can only be done comfortably in
the correct situation. BTW, how strict are Klingons in using "can?" I would
think a use such as this would be allowed, because they don't differentiate
between "should," "can," and "may."

>SoHvaD HIq vIje', 'ej majaw.
>I will buy you a drink, and we will talk.
>
>> chab ngevbogh loD qIH "Simon" nap.
>> "Simple Simon met a pieman."
>
>majQa'!
>
>-- 
>SuStel
>Beginners' Grammarian
>Stardate 96939.1

-HurghwI'
Hovjaj 96941.8

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