tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 15 20:06:40 1996
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Re: KLBC: It's been so long...!
- From: [email protected] (Alan Anderson)
- Subject: Re: KLBC: It's been so long...!
- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 22:09:03 -0500
PaulM writes:
> "That which does not kill me makes me stronger."
>1. muHoH 'e' lujbogh vay' OR:
> muHoHbe'bogh vay'
I don't like the way the first one tries to use {luj} transitively.
The second one seems perfectly to capture the meaning "something
which does not kill me."
>AND: 2. HoSwIj Dub 'oH OR:
> HoSwIj DubmoH 'oH.
Depending on how you interpret {Dub}, one of these is appropriate.
I'd have chosen {ghur} instead, though.
>The final construction I prefer is:
>
>muHoH 'e' lujbogh vay' HoswIj DubmoH 'oH.
>
>Could I have your expert advice, please?
First, {muHoH 'e' luj} doesn't look right to me at all. {luj} "fail"
certainly seems intransitive to me. If it *were* transitive, I'd expect
it to mean more like "fail a test" or "lose a competition". Your other
thought of {muHoHbe'bogh vay'} seems much better to me.
Second, the word {vay'} is the subject of the verb {Dub}, and subjects
come *after* verbs. The phrase {muHoHbe'bogh vay'} ought to go where
you've put the word {'oH}.
The final sentence as I would say it: {HoSwIj DubmoH muHoHbe'bogh vay'}
"something which does not kill me causes my strength to increase."
>{Regarding part 2, I don't really understand what is meant by
> 'transitivity' as it applies to verbs, but I have a feeling it
> is an issue that applies in this case. Can you please help me
> out on this?}
A "transitive" action is one that is done "to" someone or something else.
Examples: take a sword; activate machinery; carry a pie. "Intransitive"
actions are something that someone or something just "does", without any
other object being involved. Examples: walk; be irritable; fall. Most
transitive verbs can be used intransitively: breathe [air]; drink [water].
Problematic verbs such as "improve" and "increase" can be used either way
in english, but in languages with a specific "causative" indicator like
Klingon's {-moH}, one would expect them to be used in only one way. My
preference is to use them intransitively, since {-moH} can get the other
meaning out of them easily. I'd be likely to say "my knowledge improves"
and "the temperature increases" instead of "I improve my knowledge" and
"the sun increases the temperature." But it could easily be the other
way around, with {-'egh} used to reflect the action back at the subject
of the sentence.
-- ghunchu'wI' batlh Suvchugh vaj batlh SovchoH vaj