tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jun 02 11:50:54 1994
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Re: Klingon sentences (was: for beginners)
- From: [email protected] (Robert Baruch)
- Subject: Re: Klingon sentences (was: for beginners)
- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 94 10:34:22 EDT
| From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
(...)
| rut tlhIngan Hol lulo'bogh mu'tlheghmey'e' vImugh 'e' vInIDDI' jIQap.
|
| "Sometimes, I succeed when I try to translate sentences which
| use a Klingon's language." Better? Sometimes this is like a
| jigsaw puzzle. When the pieces fit badly, sometimes it is
| better to take it apart and start all over again.
Why is the 'e' topicalizer/emphasizer on { mu'tlheghmey }?
I like to stay away from relative clauses if I can help it. It is
awkward to say "ball which is red and big" instead of "big red ball".
Of course, Klingon has "be big" and "be red".
But Klingon doesn't appear to have "be Klingon". So how would you say
"Klingon sentence"? We say { tlhIngan Hol } for Klingon language and
{ tlhIngan wo' } for Klingon Empire. We say { DenIbya' Qatlh } for
Denebian slime devil, { 'orghenya' rojmab } for Organian Peace Treaty,
and { telun Hovtay' } for Tellun Star System.
Literally translated, { DenIbya' Qatlh } is not "a Denebian's slime devil"
but "Denibia's slime devil" or "the slime devil of Denibia"; otherwise
it would be { DenIbya'ngan Qatlh }. Same thing with the others -- Peace
Treaty of Organia, Empire of Klingon, Language of Klingon. Presumably
also Star System of Tellun.
So I guess all this is to say, I like the compactness of "sentences of the
Language of Klingon" rather than "sentences which use the Language of Klingon".
| > HolvaD tlhIngan Hol neH ghovchu' tlhIngan wo'
| >
| > tlhIngan lujatlhchu'meH tlhIngan Hol lughojlaHta' novmey puS neH
| >
| > How does one preface the previous statement with "For a long time"?
| >
| I like ~mark's convention: {qaStaHvIS poH nI'} "While a long
| time happens".
Sounds good.
I have a question about my second sentence above. I'll make the sentence
structure much simpler. I want to translate "I write to you". But there is
only "write", not "write to" in TKD. Meaning that I can easily translate
"I write words" as { mu'mey vIghItlh }.
Having gone through David Barron's Lesson 8, I've learned about indirect
objects. It seems that in "I write to you", what is actually being said here
is "I write (something) to you", with "you" as an indirect object. Similar
to "I send data to the captain" -- "the captain" is the indirect object.
If that is the case, then should the translation of "I write to you" be
{ SoHvaD vIghItlh } and not { qaghItlh }? [ I vaguely recall a letter to
this effect in HolQeD; I don't have it conveniently with me. Any ideas on
making an online version of back issues? ]
So should my sentence, rather than { tlhIngan lujatlhchu'meH ... }, read
{ tlhInganvaD lujatlhchu'meH ... }?
--------------------
OK, here's another sticky (for me) translation. "teaching materials".
First, since I can't find "material" in TKD, I'd like to choose "device"
instead. I believe that is the spirit of the phrase.
Now, I see two choices. One, use a relative clause (which I don't like):
"devices which teach you" { nIghojmoHbogh janmey }. Interesting side-point:
my English dictionary claims that "teach" as a transitive verb means "to
impart knowledge to", implying that in "teach you", the indirect-objectness
of "you" is absorbed already in the verb. But is the Klingon "teach"
identical to the English "teach", down to the 'implementation' of the
transitive form? I.e. is "I teach you" to be translated { qaghojmoH }
or { SoHvaD vIghojmoH } ?
Or, I can step right onto the pavement slick with the blood of the -ghach
war, and use "teaching devices" { ghojmoHghach janmey }; although I think
that here -ghach is fully justified by TKD.
Any opinions?
--Rob