tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 11 15:34:26 1994
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Re: Hamlet
>charghwI'vo':
>Okay, so now I get to Hamlet and see that both ~mark and Guido
>have been at it. The most striking thing about this, of course,
>is that they never translate any lines exactly the same way.
>I begin by comparing them.
>~markvo':
>ber: ghoS 'Iv.
>Guidovo':
>B: SaH 'Iv?
Whoa, there. You've got it backwards!! In fact, looking thru your entire
post, you must have mistaken my version for ~mark's. While reading your post,
I had to mentally fill in "~mark" where it said "Guido" and vice versa to get
the correct feedback.
> I like ~mark's better. It is less ambiguous, since {SaH
>'Iv} could mean either "Who is present?" or "Who cares?"
~mark said {SaH 'Iv}. So you prefer MY style, is that it?! Well, just keep in
mind who wrote what next time please. Your feedback was all very appreciated.
But you just switched all the names around.
[...]
> How long can this go on? More and more I am convinced that
>the ORIGINAL absolutely HAD to have filled this section with
>curse warfare. There's no way a bunch of guards are going to
>spend this much time all kissy-faced during a change in watch.
>Jeeeeeez.
Yeah. You're right. I did get tired of using all those {van}s. It's time for
a few more of my "creative liberties".
>~markvo':
>Hor: loQ.
>Guidovo':
>H: ghopDaj.
> Cute, Guido, cute. "A piece of him." My original suspicion
>was that Horatio would have made reference to a DIFFERENT piece
>of him, but so far as I know, we don't know the word for that
>body part yet. In response to my earlier suggested {nuqDaq
>*HoraySo'*}, I would answer {naDev jIHlaw'}.
Check the footnote. "A piece of him" was what Horatio used to indicate his
reluctance to be out at the watch. The only reason they dragged him out there
was to see a ghost which he refused to believe in anyway. Thus this phrase
meant that he was present, but it was practically against his will. I doubt
any amount of recasting short of lengthening the line to a paragraph would
express this concept very well.
>~markvo':
>mar: jatlh *HoreySo'* ngeb neH.
> 'ej Dochvam'e' cha'logh wIleghpu'bogh maH HarQo'.
> vaj ma'avtaHvIS nutlhej.
> narghqa'chugh Dochvam'e' qa''e' vaj mInmaj 'oljaj
> 'ej 'oHvaD jatlhjaj.
>Guidovo':
>M: <<Sunajba' neH>> ja' *H*.
> 'ej cha'logh Doch'e' wIleghpu'bogh HarQo'.
> ghu'vammo' <<DaHjaj ram bI'avmeH ghotlhej>> vItlhobpu'.
> narghqa'chugh nuvHey, nuQochbe', wIja'DI'.
> Eeeww! ~mark's first line could be easily read as "Only the
>fake *HoreySo'* speaks." In fact, that is about the only way I
>can read it. Every time I try to read it some other way, I
>fail. No. That's what it says. Meanwhile, the English is
>"Horatio says 'tis but our fantasy,". Guido's translation is
>far closer and less strange. I would probably not use any
>quotation notation and change {Sunajba'} to {wInajba'} to mean
>"*HoreySo'* reports that we merely dream it."
Ok. But what if I made it {ngeb neH jatlh HoreySo'}? That would certainly
clear things up.
> I also favor Guido's version of the second line, since the
>adverbial {cha'logh} feels more appropriately placed at the
>beginning of this word-string instead of dividing the verb from
>the object.
Check out TKD 6.7 (pg.180) where it states: "The adverbial may actually
follow the object noun (but still precede the verb) when the object noun is
topicalized by means of the noun suffix {-'e'}."
> I cannot find ~mark's {qa''e'} in TKD, or the two issues of
>HolQeD that have offered Okrand-sanctioned additional
>vocabulary. The Klingon parser I have been testing for D'Armond
>and friends says that {qa'} = "spirit (n)", but it does not
>site the source of this word. Would anyone like to enlighten
>me? In general, I think that if we use words that are not in
>TKD, we should footnote the source.
It came out of PK, from the toast {SoHDaq qeylIS qa' yInjaj}. There might
have been a {-taH} on that verb, but I can't remember right now. I was trying
to get away with {qa'} for "ghost". Did it work out?
>Qapla'
>charghwI'
Guido#1, Leader of All Guidos